In our 12-part podcast series, Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness, Jeffrey Rosen explores the founders’ lives with the historians who know them best and filmmaker Ken Burns shares his daily practice of self-reflection.
The “pursuit of happiness” is one of the most famous phrases in American history. When America’s founders wrote it in the Declaration of Independence, they intended it to mean happiness through lifelong learning and self-improvement.
In the last episode of the series, listeners share some big and small changes that they have made. Plus, Jeffrey Rosen, filmmaker Ken Burns, and scholar Robert P. George explore Benjamin Franklin’s virtue of silence, which he defines as “speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation.”
Follow We the People, Live at the National Constitution Center, and Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
Watch the full performance of the Pursuit of Happiness: Song Cycles by Jeffrey Rosen.
Participants
Ken Burns has been a pioneering force in American documentary filmmaking for nearly half a century. He has directed and produced some of the most acclaimed historical documentaries ever made, including The Civil War; Baseball; Jazz; The War; and, Leonardo da Vinci. His films have been honored with dozens of major awards, including 17 Emmy Awards and two Grammy Awards. His latest project is the 12-part series The American Revolution, which premiered on November 16, 2025.
Robert P. George is the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and Director of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at Princeton University. He has served as chairman of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), and before that on the President’s Council on Bioethics and as a presidential appointee to the United States Commission on Civil Rights.
Jeffrey Rosen is the president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, a nonpartisan nonprofit organization devoted to educating the public about the U.S. Constitution. He is also professor of law at the George Washington University Law School and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. His newest book, Pursuit of Liberty: How Hamilton vs. Jefferson Ignited the Lasting Battle over Power in America, is out in October 2025.
Excerpt from interview: Ken Burns urges listeners to grow more comfortable with silence—the intervals between musical notes, the quiet mornings before their day begins—so that, through prayer, they can learn to listen more carefully to themselves and others.
Ken Burns: As we engage in these virtues, we find one of the most powerful is silence and prayer. Because prayer is a way not to ask for the bicycle you want, not to thank for the grand slam you've just hit, but to create a moment of silence in which you are permitting the momentum of your life to stop and to permit some other thing to fill it. And that is a very powerful force, and it doesn't have to happen in the pew. It could happen with a cup of tea. It could happen with walking. It could happen with singing. It could happen at work.
And at the heart of it is a kind of poise. There's just this moment before the pitcher throws the ball in which everything is suspended, and you're just stopped. And in that is the possibility. And the hallmark of that is silence. But what does that mean to listen? What does it mean to stop the internal chatter and say, I'm going to hear this quote by Lincoln, "Whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some transatlantic giant step the earth and crush us with a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track in the Blue Ridge in the trial of 1,000 years. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we will live through all time or die by suicide." He wasn't even 29 years old, 1838, Young Men's Lyceum, a conversation in the afternoon about foreign policy and other things. And yet he understands that we have met the enemy and he is us. I always said my films ask one question, who are we? They also have to ask, not only of the audience but of the filmmaker, who am I? And so at that moment of possibility, it's then all up to you. Do you jump in? Do you meet the moment? Or do you equivocate? And there's no wrong thing. But all of that is information for the soul.
Excerpt from interview: Robert P. George argues that we can only defend and preserve republican government if we shape our characters through virtuous action.
Robert P. George: Now, remember the basic problem that our founders faced. Once they had, against all odds and to their own surprise, as well as the surprise of the entire world, overthrown the greatest military power on earth to gain their independence, then the question became, okay, now, what kind of government do we establish here in order to avoid jumping from the frying pan into the fire, replicating the very tyrannies and injustices that warranted us, caused us, motivated us to seek our independence from Great Britain? Now, one option was a monarchy, just a better monarchy, have a better king than King George. And that must have been tempting to people because they had the ideal king. They had George Washington. You can't get a better king. He's a man who didn't want to be king. There's your best king. He knew from religious teaching, even from what he knew about the great philosophers of antiquity, he knew that virtue doesn't just fall on you down from the heavens. You don't acquire it by just reaching up and grabbing it. You become virtuous by performing virtuous acts. Aristotle, for example, teaches us how do we become courageous? There's only one way, performing courageous acts.
How do we become truthful? How do we build a character that is a truthful character, an honorable, honest character? By never doing something dishonorable. That doesn't mean you're not going to feel the temptation to tell a lie. You get yourself into a certain spot, you're going to feel tempted to escape from that spot by telling a fib. Washington refused to do it. Why? Because he knew that your actions shape your character. They don't just alter states of affairs out there in the world, they alter you internally, either strengthening your character or weakening your character.
We need to be willing to engage with others. We need to respect their freedom of thought, freedom of inquiry, freedom of speech. If my students see me failing to accept criticism, to engage others in a truth-seeking spirit when we disagree, they see me trying to use power to restrict other people's freedom of speech, they're not going to believe a word I say about the importance of these practices and virtues to the maintenance of republican government. And that's going to be true of parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles and coach and pastor and teacher and librarian and the whole panoply of people whose interaction with our young people shapes their understandings of the world and of themselves. So that's, I think, the most fundamental thing we can do. Want to be good citizens and hand on our republican government to the next generation? Be good people. You've got to be good people.
Full Transcript
View Transcript (PDF)
This transcript may not be in its final form, accuracy may vary, and it may be updated or revised in the future.
Stay Connected and Learn More
- Questions or comments about the show? Email us at [email protected]
- Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr
- Explore the America at 250 Civic Toolkit
- Learn more about the NCC’s and Arizona State University’s new online course on civic virtue, 'What the Founders Meant by “Happiness”: A Journey Through Virtue and Character’ and sign up for email updates
- Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate
- Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen
- Join us for an upcoming live program or watch recordings on YouTube
- Support our important work:
Additional Resources
- The Golden Mean: Songs for the Pursuit of Happiness, Music and Lyrics by Jeffrey Rosen [PDF]
- Twelve Titans: Songs of the Greek and Roman Gods and Goddesses, Music and Lyrics by Jeffrey Rosen [PDF]
Credits
Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness is produced by PRX Productions for the National Constitution Center. It is made possible with support from the John Templeton Foundation.
Episode 12, Silence in Order to Listen is hosted by Jeffrey Rosen, featuring Robert P. George and Ken Burns.
© 2025 National Constitution Center. All Rights Reserved.
From PRX Productions: Genevieve Sponsler, Courtney Fleurantin, David Newtown, Sandra Lopez-Monsalve, Tommy Bazarian, Pedro Rafael Rosado, and Jocelyn Gonzalez.
From the National Constitution Center: Annie Stone, Griffin Richie, and Bill Pollock.
The Golden Mean: Songs for the Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen. Arrangements by Greg Strohman. Featuring James Martin, Jennifer Blyth, and Greg Strohman.
© ℗ 2025 Jeffrey Rosen. All Rights Reserved.
